From w.marchment at griffith.edu.au Fri Sep 12 07:25:42 2008 From: w.marchment at griffith.edu.au (Wendy Marchment) Date: Fri Sep 12 07:25:50 2008 Subject: [Unistats] Fw: New student data elements for low SES - feedback Message-ID: Dear all, There's been some traffic on the edequity listserv about the new data elements for low SES which was announced in the latest HEIMS newsletter. The equity practitioners find it very strange and anomolous that they weren't included in the consultation. EOPHEA will be writing to DEEWR with their feedback on the proposal. I have copied my email to the ed equity list as per below . Please note that Gavin meant 'the norm' when he said 'normal parents'. It would be helpful if we could frame out responses (due on 19 Sept) along similar lines and have it go from a DVC/VC in our institutions to add some weight to a revision of the proposal. Please consult with relevant equity practitioners in your institution. Regards Wendy Marchment Director Quality, Planning and Statistics Nathan campus, Griffith University Nathan QLD 4111 Australia www.griffith.edu.au/qps Email: W.Marchment@griffith.edu.au Telephone (07) 373 54027 Facsimile (07) 373 55525 ************************************************************** PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the addressee(s) and may contain information that is confidential or privileged. If you receive this e-mail and you are not the addressee, please disregard the contents of the e-mail, delete the e-mail, and notify the author immediately. *************************************************************** ----- Forwarded by Wendy Marchment/Staff/Griffith on 12/09/2008 09:14 AM ----- Wendy Marchment/Staff/Griffith 11/09/2008 09:53 AM To cc Gavin Moodie/Staff/Griffith, Deborah.Tranter@unisa.edu.au Subject Fw: New student data elements for low SES - feedback Dear all, I have discussed and agree with Gavin's points below. He has given me permission to pass this on to the equity listserv. My only additional comment is that ideally, this information should be collected through tertiary admission centres where possible and be part of the downloaded information to university student systems. This would allow for possible analysis on applicants and offers as well as enrolments. Regards Wendy Marchment Director Quality, Planning and Statistics Nathan campus, Griffith University Nathan QLD 4111 Australia www.griffith.edu.au/qps Email: W.Marchment@griffith.edu.au Telephone (07) 373 54027 Facsimile (07) 373 55525 ************************************************************** PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the addressee(s) and may contain information that is confidential or privileged. If you receive this e-mail and you are not the addressee, please disregard the contents of the e-mail, delete the e-mail, and notify the author immediately. *************************************************************** ----- Forwarded by Wendy Marchment/Staff/Griffith on 11/09/2008 09:45 AM ----- Gavin Moodie 11/09/2008 09:24 AM To W.Marchment@griffith.edu.au cc Cathy McGrath , Heather Cameron , Joanna Peters , John Fairbairn , Sue Spence , Suzanne Wilkinson Subject New student data elements for low SES - feedback Wendy The question is too complicated and confusing. It should ask simply the highest qualification of any parent, or the highest qualification of mother and the highest qualification of father, and leave it to the very few students who do not have normal parents to adapt their response to their situation, as they have done for most of their life. I note, incidentally, that answering the question seems to be voluntary so students can decline to answer if their circumstances don't fit or they find the question insensitive in imposing a norm. The classification of qualifications is far too crude. In addition to the current levels it should collect data on parents who completed year 11, year 10, other secondary, primary education, no formal schooling and don't know. The significance of level of highest qualification is related to year of completion. I expect completing year 11 would indicate mid-low ses in 1985 but mid-high SES in 1955. So this data element will have to be interpreted within time periods. Nonetheless, I do not think date when parent completed their highest qualification should be collected because many students will not know this and it will add to their frustration with completing the form. I suggest that date that parent completed their highest qualification be inferred from the student's age: this will be pretty rough, but hopefully good enough. While parents' highest qualification would be a much better indicator of ses if it were collected with parents' occupation or income band, there are various methodological difficulties with each of these so I don't think it is worthwhile collecting either. They can be added later if highest qualification alone turns out to be too inaccurate for current purposes The data should be collected for all commencing domestic students, including postgraduates. Increasingly students are pursing postgraduate qualifications to distinguish themselves from ordinary bachelors, and it would be useful to test whether this has an ses bias. It is also important to test whether graduate entry occupational qualifications are even more biased by ses, which I suspect is the case. I support Griffith collecting data from 2009 and, incidentally, comparing this with postcode data. Gavin G.Moodie@griffith.edu.au Vice Chancellor's office GRIFFITH UNIVERSITY 4111, Australia Home page: http://www.griffith.edu.au/vc/ate/moodie/ ph +61 7 3735 5482 fax +61 7 3735 7507 Wendy Marchment/Staff/Griffith 09/09/2008 02:56 PM To Sue Spence/Staff/Griffith@Griffith, Joanna Peters/Staff/Griffith, Suzanne Wilkinson/Staff/Griffith, Gavin Moodie/Staff/Griffith, Cathy McGrath/Staff/Griffith@Griffith cc Heather Cameron/Staff/Griffith@Griffith, John Fairbairn/Staff/Griffith Subject New student data elements for low SES - feedback pls Dear all, In the recent DEEWR September Newsletter available at http://www.heimshelp.deewr.gov.au/8_Newsletters/, a proposal is included re new student return data elements for identification on low SES, to replace the current postcode methodology. Would very much appreciate your feedback on the proposal by Monday 15th September COB in order to draft a response which is required by 19 September. Feedback to include any/all of the following: 1. appropriateness of questions framed 2. which students should be asked eg all domestic undergraduates 3. business process/system implications 4. additional questions which may assist in more accurately reflecting low SES. For my part I think the proposed questions have the potential to confuse most students and would be difficult to collect data-wise. Seems that DEEWR is endeavouring to cater for same sex couples with children. As we (ie Sue, John, Suzanne & I) were discussing this recently it seems timely, although from Griffith's point of view would prefer collection from 2009 internally. Please feel free to pass this on to any other staff member who may have a perspective on this. [attachment "Attachment 1.pdf" deleted by Gavin Moodie/Staff/Griffith] [attachment "Draft education_parent1 & 2 elements.pdf" deleted by Gavin Moodie/Staff/Griffith] Regards Wendy Marchment Director Quality, Planning and Statistics Nathan campus, Griffith University Nathan QLD 4111 Australia www.griffith.edu.au/qps Email: W.Marchment@griffith.edu.au Telephone (07) 373 54027 Facsimile (07) 373 55525 ************************************************************** PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the addressee(s) and may contain information that is confidential or privileged. If you receive this e-mail and you are not the addressee, please disregard the contents of the e-mail, delete the e-mail, and notify the author immediately. *************************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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