[Unistats] When is a FATAL not a FATAL?

Fri May 2 10:36:24 WST 2003

David O'Brien,
University Statistics Section
Department of Education, Science & Training

Dear David,

In response to a message I sent to the UniStats mailing list just yesterday afternoon, I received overwhelming support for the idea that validation rules that check a current submission's data against previous submissions and generate FATAL errors should, in most cases, generate WARNING errors instead.
(responses are included below)

In particular, errors such as:
     3021: **  FATAL  ** - E328 (Course commencement date) different in prior and current submission files 
     3022: **  FATAL  ** - E315 (Gender) different in prior and current submission files
     3023: **  FATAL  ** - E314 (Date of birth) different in prior and current submission files 

should NOT be appearing. They should be WARNINGs.

I doubt whether any University is currently submitting a Student Enrolment file which has those lovely words "FILE VALIDATED" at the bottom of the validation report! All because of errors such as those listed above. It is very demoralising!

I hereby kindly request that all such validation rules be reviewed and changed to WARNINGs and that DESTPAC be modified post-haste to incorporate these changes.

Regards
Rob
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Rob Rispoli
Statistician
Strategic Information Services
Edith Cowan University
Pearson St, Churchlands
Western Australia  6018

Ph. +61-8-92738234  Fax.+61-8-92738167
Email: r.rispoli at ecu.edu.au 

__________________________________________________________

From: Robert McCormack [mailto:rmccormack at admin.uwa.edu.au] 

Dear Rob 

Over the years we have had a few of these errors, and DEST have been happy to accept our explanation that we had corrected errors.  However it would be nice if the message was changed to a Warning.

I can recall the case of a hermaphroditic student who had declared that they were not to be reported as either male or female, but I can't recall what we actually reported for that student.  It is likely that the student would have generated a significant number of fatal errors. 

Cheers 
Robert 

Robert McCormack 
Director 
Planning Services 
The University of Western Australia 

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> From: Straty Savvas [mailto:SSavvas at groupwise.swin.edu.au] 

> 
> Hi Robert,
> 
> I agree, I'm forever incorrecting correct data because of these types
> of errors. The data might not have been available or 
> incorrect at census
> date and missed the deadline, and I do not think it is that 
> important to
> miss reporting the case.

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> From: Allen Muscio [mailto:a.muscio at planning.usyd.edu.au] 
> 
> Rob,
> 
> I agree the Fatal Errors you refer to should be Warnings.
> 
> Cheers,
> Allen
> 
> Dr Allen Muscio
> Planning Support Office, A14
> University of Sydney

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> From: Roni McDowell [mailto:roni.mcdowell at rmit.edu.au] 
> 
> Dear Rob,
> 
> I fully agree that these messages should not be FATALs but 
> would appreciate still seeing them as warnings - in case 
> those of us with the system from hell find that the system 
> has chosen to reset something like the commence date because 
> it is basically evil!
> 
> Roni
> 
> Roni McDowell
> Head, Statistics and Reporting Unit
> Planning Group
> RMIT Collection Coordinator
> RMIT University
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> From: Bruce Zimmer [mailto:b.zimmer at cqu.edu.au] 
> 
> Hi Rob,
> 
> we face these same problems, every submission.  We always 
> have a considerable number of cases of incorrect student bio 
> data which, when retrospectively corrected, result in "fatal 
> errors".  
> 
> Also, changes in reported course commencement date have been 
> a particular problem for us the past 2 years, due in large 
> part to our changeover of student systems.  The new 
> Peoplesoft system operates under different definitional 
> conventions than the old system, resulting in incorrect 
> course commencement dates under certain situations.  When 
> identified, these incorrect dates are corrected - producing 
> fatal errors with DESTPAC.  
> 
> regards,
> Bruce
> 
> Bruce Zimmer
> Manager, Analysis and Planning
> Central Queensland University
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> From: Julie Talevski [mailto:Julie.Talevski at newcastle.edu.au] 
> 
> Hi Rob
> 
> I agree with both you and Roni.  We spend of lot of time 
> checking these records only to find that the vast majority 
> were errors in the first place (gender/date of birth) or the 
> commencement date has changed for a legitimate reason.  I too 
> would like to see them as WARNINGS rather than FATALS.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Julie
> 
> Julie Talevski
> Administrative Officer
> Student Systems Support
> University of Newcastle NSW 2308  Australia
--------------------------------------------

> From: Eldon Rosenberg [mailto:Eldon.Rosenberg at avondale.edu.au] 
> 
> 
> Hi Rob,
> 
> Dates of birth and gender -- well, at Avondale I reckon we've had
> approximately one correction in the last 10 years for each, so I'm not
> opposed to those being FATAL errors (sounds incongruously 
> funny when you say
> it, eh?  Date of birth and gender, fatal errors?  He he yeah ahem).  I
> remember last year DEST was fine with me just annotating the 
> error report
> with an explanation.  No sweat.  Though I can imagine the 
> larger Uni's may
> have a somewhat higher incidence (it's statistically 
> probable), but that's
> for them to say.
> 
> In those cases it felt helpful to have them FATAL, as it 
> prompted me to
> check thoroughly with the records people about the changes to 
> make sure the
> change wasn't the error (there are so many WARNINGs that I pretty much
> ignore if I'm running close to the deadline, and check them 
> after, which is
> probably not the correct thing to do!).  But again, that's 
> just my feeling.
> 
> I'd be OK with them being warnings, because I do check the 
> warnings in the
> summary section at the bottom of the error reports even when I'm in a
> tearing hurry, and I surely would notice these!
> 
> We've had to correct course commencement date several times.  
> I think those
> dates are more likely to get errors, and I'm more bothered by 
> that one being
> FATAL.
> 
> Eldon
> ______________
> Eldon Rosenberg       	       
mailto:Eldon.Rosenberg at avondale.edu.au
Systems Mgr/Programmer/DEST CC Phone: +61 2 4980 2145
IT Services           	       Fax: +61 2 4980 2118
Avondale College      	       http://www.avondale.edu.au

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